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Old 3rd March 2014, 05:59 AM
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Anyone notice that Russian troops have lined up on the boarder of Ukraine, and that pro-Russian, and armed, troops are walking the streets of Crimea?

It's being reported that masses of pro-EU sentiments have caused a Ukrainian government body to oust its own pro-Russian President. Meanwhile, Ukraine depends solely on the Russian Federation for its energy.


Interesting set of developments so close to the Sochi Olympics.

AA

P.S. I am still trying to be positive on this GA board.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 09:04 PM
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Watching the situation with concern Aaron.

What the Russians have done is similar to what NATO did in the Serbian province of Kosovo,albeit without UN backing this time.I must admit to having some sympathy with the Russian position.Following the coup the interim government in Kiev contains a number of fascist,ultra nationalists from the Svoboda and Right Sector parties.These include the new deputy president and the minister in charge of the Ukrainian military.

One of first things the government did was to remove the status of Russian as the country's second official language.Forty per cent of the Ukrainian population speak Russian as their first language and naturally look to Moscow rather than the west.The far right members of the new regime (non elected) are on record making extreme anti Russian and anti semitic statements.

Does all this justify Russia's military operations in the country.Probably not.Putin's government is proving to be a thuggish regime with scant regard for human rights.I do,however,find in hard to take seriously the hypocritical response from the west.
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Old 3rd March 2014, 10:49 PM
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Mr Putin could be fitted more into a classic Bond villian if he tried. Nationalism is such a dangerous weapon. I think the Olympics were used to show the might and greatness of Russia not only to the world but to his own people....It was kind of planned ..... Nationalism may have a place somewhere but there is a fine line between being fed that your country is great (reminding them of past victories ....and making one group of people feel better than others....(whether Putin's young supporters or the rise of neo nazi far right in Ukraine)

i didn't think about the neighboring countries ...someone mentioned that the West have military bases all around Russia and Putin was just flexing his muscles

The thing is, there will be people in Ukraine who have lived through Ukraine being part of Russia...then a separate country ...and now again a new Russia....the young wont remember....and Putin could be seen as giving Eastern Europe a sense of pride ......

When it was the Africa/Middle East/Asia young rebelling ...it was quite easy to say ...oooh they are culturally different ...look at them acting like that .....we would never do that ....but we did ...it happened during the London Riots....it could happen again if people get angry enough as tempers soar and finances dwindle with the Scottish debate .....

What can the West do ? Short of declaring the 3rd world war....Putin is unlikely to back down ....
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Old 21st March 2014, 03:56 PM
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Get out your erasers and start drawing new lines as Crimea as just been annexed into the Russian Federation.

Raise your hand if you too would like President Putin as your President. (as he is "unlikely to back down.")
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Old 22nd March 2014, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhondda rudie View Post
Watching the situation with concern Aaron.

What the Russians have done is similar to what NATO did in the Serbian province of Kosovo,albeit without UN backing this time.I must admit to having some sympathy with the Russian position.Following the coup the interim government in Kiev contains a number of fascist,ultra nationalists from the Svoboda and Right Sector parties.These include the new deputy president and the minister in charge of the Ukrainian military.

One of first things the government did was to remove the status of Russian as the country's second official language.Forty per cent of the Ukrainian population speak Russian as their first language and naturally look to Moscow rather than the west.The far right members of the new regime (non elected) are on record making extreme anti Russian and anti semitic statements.

Does all this justify Russia's military operations in the country.Probably not.Putin's government is proving to be a thuggish regime with scant regard for human rights.I do,however,find in hard to take seriously the hypocritical response from the west.
Yeah. Mostly what you said.....

The stance of the west is farcica. Basically the west has said to Putin you're a naughty man, and if you don't back down we will call you are very bad man. But we wont be mobilising any troops against you, so be a good sport and back off.

You can understand why he is hardly shaking in his boots. I have found myself on the side of the Russians on a few things, Syria being one. The west was about to wade into yet another middle eastern country and it was the Russians who halted that and rightly so! While Assad may not be up for any peoples award he is a lot more stable than the countless split factions who are looking for a power grab. Putin knows this and is right on the money. I think the West should stop suplying rebels and allow Assad to get a grip of the country. Then we can help to look for alternatives when there isn't rockets being launched on streets killing all and sundry.

As for Crimea, again i take his side. A referendum was held and almost 90% turned out to vote and 97% wanted to join Russia. Added to that the the legitimate President of Ukraine was forced into exile by from what i can see nothing more than a militia then i think any fair minded person would agree that Ukraine is in trouble. It seems to me that Putin has simply taken the Russian speaking, Russian leaning into the stability that Russia has.

Putin knows he is holding all the Aces, Russia has the economy and more importantly the energy that Europe needs. So you can rule Europe out of doing anything of significance to Russia. So that leaves the USA, no American president wants to have yet another stand off with Russia, especially not someone like Obama. He has an almost isolationist policy compared to his predecessors.

So exit strategies will have to be worked out where everyone looks like the winner, but in reality Russia can't lose. I just hope the west winds it neck in sooner rather than later so it doesn't make a complete ass of itself.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 11:36 AM
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The West/NATO has screwed up the Middle East/Iraq/Iran/Afghanistan/Pakistan and is now trying its luck in Eastern Europe - BRING IT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 22nd March 2014, 12:57 PM
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an astronaut once commented, when looking down on earth from the int space station..... that..."from space you dont see any borders".

and someone else said, (i forget who), said, "that borders are just scars of war".
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Old 22nd March 2014, 01:21 PM
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Nope....never noticed it. Monty Python could have done a bit about me...."the man who never noticed anything"
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Old 22nd March 2014, 03:11 PM
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-- especially not someone like Obama. He has an almost isolationist policy compared to his predecessors.--

Or maybe he actually has a conscience. One of the slogans he ran on back in 2008 was "the war in Iraq was unjust, we need to bring our troops back". Now, when he is reminded by Putin of America's indiscretions, he has no leg to stand on.

Russia has been steadily moving in the backwardly direction, trying to isolate itself from the rest of the world, ever since Putin came to power. In the last two-three years, this movement has been picking up more and more speed. The next six months will be crucial in determining where Russia stands in the international community, if it will cut itself off from the West and move more to the East. I hope it's not moving in the direction of North Korea, but there are a lot of signs that say it may well be.
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Old 22nd March 2014, 03:25 PM
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This video is of the "march in support of Crimea and against fascism", that took place in Moscow on March 15. I found the "against fascism" part to be ironic.

Just for yourself.

œ˜Т˜Н“ ’ Ÿž””•*–šУ š*ЫœА ˜ Ÿ*žТ˜’ ФАШ˜—œА œžСš’А 15 03 14 - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO5DqCnwMhY
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Last edited by KGB_I_was_NOT; 22nd March 2014 at 03:30 PM.
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