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Rebel Soul
5th March 2011, 07:29 AM
There has never been an Olympic Games that hasn't been without some form of political controversy.

When someone plays for their national team, they're seen as 'representing the nation'. Which is fine, because they want to do well for their friends, families and supporters. I think it gets a bit more complex and murky when sportsmen and women are seen as representing their governments. They may be quite politically opposed to what their government is doing. Or they may have never received any assistance to do their training from their government - such is the case for many British athletes.

I'm deliberately keeping this initial post brief and non-specific for others to elaborate upon.
Sport and politics: your views.

nani
5th March 2011, 06:28 PM
For me, the first controversial Olympic Games that I can remember is from history; the 1936 Olympics when silly Hitler had problems with Jesse Owens single handedly demolishing his Aryan ideals.

Then there was the 1976 Olympics in Montreal and the African boycott because NZ was going and had sent The All Blacks to South Africa. (South Africa had been banned from The Olympics since 1964 because of it's refusal to condemn apartheid).

NZ said that rugby union is an autonomous organisation, separate to The Olympics.

The government was largely supported on the premise of 'sports and politics shouldn't mix'. In a rugby mad nation, if the government had banned the All Blacks, you'd be onto a winner if you bet that the National party would lose the next election.

nani
5th March 2011, 06:35 PM
Ideally sports and politics shouldn't mix. Neither should money and sports...and governments shouldn't meddle in other government's policies.

I think governments are too short-sighted and selfish to mix anything with anything.

Dean M
5th March 2011, 08:59 PM
i think the politicians should keep out of sport
we have the olympic in 2012...i cant see what that will do for the area once they have finished....yes ...my beloved hammers will have the stadium :( but the overall money spent???????????
the whole area had small businesses employing people, but they were all compulsory purchased...it's ok for the owners of these companies ...but not all of thier staff want to work in fast food places......a lot of these guy's are skilled workers or only understand the preffession they were working in

i think i am one of the few that DONT want the olympics


but as for sport in general.....the goverment should keep out

Starshine007
5th March 2011, 09:12 PM
i think i am one of the few that DONT want the olympics


but as for sport in general.....the goverment should keep out

You're not the only one Dean, remember the text campaign on tubes and buses prior to the decision on where the 2012 Olympics would be held? Text YES to this number... why wasn't there a text NO option? Because the NOs would have outweighed the YES votes. All that money to build facilities that the general public won't get use out of afterwards and this week a report that there isn't enough money in the pot to make training grants to all the would be Olympians anyway.

Add to that a message from Transport for London that commuters should find other ways to get to work for the duration of the games. Excuse me, who the f*ck pays out year after year to travel on the antiquated transport network in the first place day after day ad infinitum, then we're told to bugger off for however many weeks while those idiotic enough to pay huge ticket prices can come and go because we wouldn't want to disrupt their entertainment by trying to do our jobs?

And I'm with you on the other part of this, politics and sport shouldn't mix. But it does, all too often, particularly around these huge, (dis)organised events.

Dean M
5th March 2011, 09:25 PM
You're not the only one Dean, remember the text campaign on tubes and buses prior to the decision on where the 2012 Olympics would be held? Text YES to this number... why wasn't there a text NO option? Because the NOs would have outweighed the YES votes. All that money to build facilities that the general public won't get use out of afterwards and this week a report that there isn't enough money in the pot to make training grants to all the would be Olympians anyway.

Add to that a message from Transport for London that commuters should find other ways to get to work for the duration of the games. Excuse me, who the f*ck pays out year after year to travel on the antiquated transport network in the first place day after day ad infinitum, then we're told to bugger off for however many weeks while those idiotic enough to pay huge ticket prices can come and go because we wouldn't want to disrupt their entertainment by trying to do our jobs?

And I'm with you on the other part of this, politics and sport shouldn't mix. But it does, all too often, particularly around these huge, (dis)organised events.

i really think that Boris Johnsson is so thick that he will demolish the Velodrome to build a boat racing thing.....he is the guy that decided to have cycle routes (which are a good thing) but paint them blue at 1000 per metre or something.....he is good fun ..but a effing idiot

JB40
5th March 2011, 09:50 PM
this was a historic moment in sport and politics.

dej79dP0Ib8




I remember watching this live.

Aaron Otang
6th March 2011, 12:01 AM
You're not the only one Dean, remember the text campaign on tubes and buses prior to the decision on where the 2012 Olympics would be held? Text YES to this number... why wasn't there a text NO option? Because the NOs would have outweighed the YES votes. All that money to build facilities that the general public won't get use out of afterwards and this week a report that there isn't enough money in the pot to make training grants to all the would be Olympians anyway.

Add to that a message from Transport for London that commuters should find other ways to get to work for the duration of the games. Excuse me, who the f*ck pays out year after year to travel on the antiquated transport network in the first place day after day ad infinitum, then we're told to bugger off for however many weeks while those idiotic enough to pay huge ticket prices can come and go because we wouldn't want to disrupt their entertainment by trying to do our jobs?

And I'm with you on the other part of this, politics and sport shouldn't mix. But it does, all too often, particularly around these huge, (dis)organised events.


What M Said... im F**kin off outta London for the Duration of the Olympics.... :lol: and silly Bollocks Boris reckons everything transport wise will be ready & up & running when it happens... Terwat!!!!!! he's killed London even more than Ken Did.... stupid Bikes an all... now id rather have Ken Back!!! at least he cared after all

Aaron Otang
6th March 2011, 12:05 AM
There has never been an Olympic Games that hasn't been without some form of political controversy.

When someone plays for their national team, they're seen as 'representing the nation'. Which is fine, because they want to do well for their friends, families and supporters. I think it gets a bit more complex and murky when sportsmen and women are seen as representing their governments. They may be quite politically opposed to what their government is doing. Or they may have never received any assistance to do their training from their government - such is the case for many British athletes.

I'm deliberately keeping this initial post brief and non-specific for others to elaborate upon.
Sport and politics: your views.


yes i agree too, I believe sport & politics deffo dont mix... i was going off on a Tang-gent in last post ;-) being a Londoner

kmaker
6th March 2011, 12:17 AM
good thread. Many thoughts but I'll try not to write a throne speech.

My Neice will be an athlete (likely anyway) in the Olympics in London so chances are, I'll support it for that reason. Yes, I've already funded it through taxes but I don't have the "opt out" button when it comes to that.

Could governments and the IOC spend the money elsewhere...yes definitely. Just look around.

The winter Olympics in Vancouver last year were deemed a success. Canada was deemed a great host, there was a great deal of pride at least just for a moment. Good investment?...not sure. Yes, from a personal perspective in that it was a distraction from reality but no because it's not reality....it's a chance to escape and ignore what's really going on...but maybe we all need that from time to time.

Sorry, completely sitting on the fence on this but good thread.
P

nani
6th March 2011, 03:40 AM
this was a historic moment in sport and politics.
dej79dP0Ib8




I remember watching this live.

Thank you for sharing, Jimmy x It's so important.

Tommie Smith, John Carlos and Peter Norman., Mexico 1968.

This openly showed the hypocrisy of the Olympic Committee who had banned SA from the previous!! Olympics for apartheid!!

Having just competed in a prestigious event, these athletes saluted for black rights, pride, rememberance and even solidarity for blue collar workers.There's a lot of symbolism in what they wore, and didn't (standing in barefeet) but nearly everyone chose to ostracise them for the Black Power salute.

The white dude is an Australian and I bet not many of you knew that he supported the Americans for their stance and he was ALSO protesting; against Australia's shameful 'White Australia Policy' which basically, restricted non-white immigration because Australians were scared of losing what they had to industrious immigrants originally brought into Australia to work.

Most athletes at any Olympics will only be remembered for sports and their sacrifices for glory. These great men will be remembered for standing up for basic civil rights.

Meanwhile, at the same Olympics, George Foreman was embraced for waving the America flag.

Rebel Soul
6th March 2011, 06:36 AM
Thanks for all the replies, will return to them all later on today.

The first Olympics I became aware of was the Munich games in 1972. And as I recall, some Israeli athletes were taken hostage and murdered. From there onwards (and before), politics has never been far away.

Dean M
6th March 2011, 07:12 AM
Thanks for all the replies, will return to them all later on today.

The first Olympics I became aware of was the Munich games in 1972. And as I recall, some Israeli athletes were taken hostage and murdered. From there onwards (and before), politics has never been far away.


another reason for keeping politics out of sport is the fact that Iran are threatening a boycott as they think the 2012 logo spells ZION

personally i think it looks like Lisa Simpson giving a blow job

http://www.creativereview.co.uk/images/uploads/2009/03/london2012.jpg

Rebel Soul
6th March 2011, 11:08 AM
Ideally sports and politics shouldn't mix. Neither should money and sports...and governments shouldn't meddle in other government's policies.

I think governments are too short-sighted and selfish to mix anything with anything.

I don't have a huge problem with any sportsmen (i.e women too, saves me writing sportsmen and women) being well paid. In the grand scheme of things, their job isn't as important as a doctor's or someone who collects the rubbish bins but sports do provide entertainment, and even inspiration sometimes.

I 100% agree with you on the governments.

Rebel Soul
6th March 2011, 11:10 AM
i think the politicians should keep out of sport
we have the olympic in 2012...i cant see what that will do for the area once they have finished....yes ...my beloved hammers will have the stadium :( but the overall money spent???????????
the whole area had small businesses employing people, but they were all compulsory purchased...it's ok for the owners of these companies ...but not all of thier staff want to work in fast food places......a lot of these guy's are skilled workers or only understand the preffession they were working in

i think i am one of the few that DONT want the olympics


but as for sport in general.....the goverment should keep out

It's rare that we hear about these casualties that result from events such as the Olympics. I would feel very aggrieved if I'd lost my livelihood for the sake of a month long, 4 yearly event.

Rebel Soul
6th March 2011, 11:34 AM
this was a historic moment in sport and politics.

dej79dP0Ib8




I remember watching this live.

Very powerful moment and in keeping with the times. The race they both ran was amazing too, it's never shown....

That was one of the instances I had in mind, where athletes are ostensibly competing for flag and nation but in reality, they are completely against what it stands for.

Nizzy
6th March 2011, 06:26 PM
Very interesting thread. I think sport has real political power in that it makes all of us colour-blind. Growing up in a small town in semi-rural Scotland in the 1970s, I had met very few black people, yet me and my mates loved Ali and used to fight over who got to 'be' Pele in playground football games.
I know many contributors to the forum, and the band themselves, of course, went through their early years in multi-racial neighbourhoods. Ours was anything but.
But I can't remember a single incident of racial harrassment when black and Asian (and white English, for that matter) families eventually moved into our area.
Maybe sport and the idea that you cheered someone on because of their skill, whatever their race or nationality, played a part in that. Sport is a great leveller. As is music, of course.

nani
6th March 2011, 06:32 PM
...
Maybe sport and the idea that you cheered someone on because of their skill, whatever their race or nationality, played a part in that. Sport is a great leveller. As is music, of course.

Exactly :-)

I enjoyed the rest of your post too, Nizzy x

Nizzy
6th March 2011, 06:57 PM
Thanks, Nani.:friends:

The insanity of growing up in west central Scotland is, of course, not racism but sectarianism. Hatred of people who look, talk and otherwise share lives that are identical to one's own is rife and is a vicious poison. It's insane.

Rebel Soul
6th March 2011, 07:38 PM
Very interesting thread. I think sport has real political power in that it makes all of us colour-blind. Growing up in a small town in semi-rural Scotland in the 1970s, I had met very few black people, yet me and my mates loved Ali and used to fight over who got to 'be' Pele in playground football games.
I know many contributors to the forum, and the band themselves, of course, went through their early years in multi-racial neighbourhoods. Ours was anything but.
But I can't remember a single incident of racial harrassment when black and Asian (and white English, for that matter) families eventually moved into our area.
Maybe sport and the idea that you cheered someone on because of their skill, whatever their race or nationality, played a part in that. Sport is a great leveller. As is music, of course.

This is it, Craig. There's an honour and respect amongst sports competitors, respect for the ability of the people they compete against. Yes it's highly competitive but that kind of respect transcends nationality. It definitely transcends politics. Governments who call for bans and boycotts in an arena that has nothing to do with their latest gripe are unwanted meddlers.

Nizzy
7th March 2011, 01:07 AM
This is it, Craig. There's an honour and respect amongst sports competitors, respect for the ability of the people they compete against. Yes it's highly competitive but that kind of respect transcends nationality. It definitely transcends politics. Governments who call for bans and boycotts in an arena that has nothing to do with their latest gripe are unwanted meddlers.

Cheers, Imani. It's all so simple, mate. For how long must we explain, how long will it take to get it into their thick heads? The desire to cheer on another human being's sporting achievements is an animal urge within each and every one of us. The colour of their skin becomes meaningless. When that is stolen as an end to political means it doesn't cheapen or regulate it, it makes our innate response against any interference stronger still.

flyin'irie
7th March 2011, 01:56 AM
Thank you for sharing, Jimmy x It's so important.

Tommie Smith, John Carlos and Peter Norman., Mexico 1968.

This openly showed the hypocrisy of the Olympic Committee who had banned SA from the previous!! Olympics for apartheid!!

Having just competed in a prestigious event, these athletes saluted for black rights, pride, rememberance and even solidarity for blue collar workers.There's a lot of symbolism in what they wore, and didn't (standing in barefeet) but nearly everyone chose to ostracise them for the Black Power salute.

The white dude is an Australian and I bet not many of you knew that he supported the Americans for their stance and he was ALSO protesting; against Australia's shameful 'White Australia Policy' which basically, restricted non-white immigration because Australians were scared of losing what they had to industrious immigrants originally brought into Australia to work.

Most athletes at any Olympics will only be remembered for sports and their sacrifices for glory. These great men will be remembered for standing up for basic civil rights.

Meanwhile, at the same Olympics, George Foreman was embraced for waving the America flag.



Indeed. This case is not about dirty politics involving financial interests or dodgy geostrategic calculations.

This is about a strong political point in favour of a just cause:

Why were they treated as second class citizen while as a group of normal human beings they had the ability to show first class talent to make their nation shine ? Beyond the pure performance, sport is about promoting values of respect.
They did just that by claiming what had wrongly been denied to them: respect. That's why I think in this particular case that the expression of their political stance -at that occasion- was more than appropriate.

.

rhondda rudie
7th March 2011, 03:08 PM
I think politics and international sport are interlinked and always will be.Sport was used by the communist regimes of the Soviet bloc as a propaganda tool and I'm sure most of us remember how South African teams were rightly ostracised during the apartheid era.Also witness how politicians rush to associate themselves with sporting success.Politics will always influence sport just as it influences everything else.It's the only thing that affects our lives from the moment we're conceived to the moment they nail down the lid.

nani
7th March 2011, 03:42 PM
Too right, Tom. The ideal is that sports and politics shouldn't mix but governments have been manipulating us for years so why shouldn't sportsmen use their own talent as a platform?

Nizzy
7th March 2011, 09:06 PM
Spot on, as always, Tam.
If you can find it, Donald McRae's Winter Colours is the best book I've read about the oval ball game and has some great accounts of what it was like to grow up as a white, rugby-loving kid in apartheid-era SA, and his adventures as a hack afterwards. If you can't find it, give me a shout. Such a brilliant book.

rhondda rudie
8th March 2011, 08:38 PM
Spot on, as always, Tam.
If you can find it, Donald McRae's Winter Colours is the best book I've read about the oval ball game and has some great accounts of what it was like to grow up as a white, rugby-loving kid in apartheid-era SA, and his adventures as a hack afterwards. If you can't find it, give me a shout. Such a brilliant book.

Thanks Craig.I'll have a look in Waterstone's in Cardiff.8-)