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  #1  
Old 14th April 2009, 03:21 PM
Rebel Soul Rebel Soul is offline
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Default Schools hire bouncers instead of supply teachers

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...r-lessons.html

Almost like a headline from 'The Day Today'- except it's not a fictional one. I guess the only question I have is how will the pupils tell the difference between a trained school teacher and a prison warden?

Schools are recruiting nightclub bouncers, prison officers and ex- soldiers to stand in for absent teachers.

Classroom supervisors with military or law enforcement backgrounds are being hired instead of supply teachers to administer 'crowd control'.

One secondary school in North London employed two permanent teacher stand-ins through an agency for professional doormen, the National Union of Teachers annual conference heard.
They were chosen as they were 'stern and loud', said Andrew Baisley, a delegate from North London.

The bouncers were checked for criminal records but given no training. Within weeks, one was dismissed after breaching disciplinary codes.

Job adverts for cover teachers increasingly appeal for applicants with a forces background or police training, the delegates heard.
A recruitment agency operating in the West Midlands area is advertising for 'hard core' classroom supervisors who can 'control the kids in schools'.

The market for supply teachers is rapidly shrinking as schools take on cheaper stand-ins who can keep order while pupils work on preprepared assignments.
Instead of using supply teachers, which can cost 200 a day, equivalent to nearly 40,000-a-year, schools increasingly employ cover supervisors who are often paid less than 20,000, it was claimed.

Delegates at the conference in Cardiff condemned the growing trend for schools to use 'cover supervisors' instead of supply staff when regular teachers call in sick or go on maternity or paternity leave. Provided they pass security checks, the supervisors need no teaching qualifications.

But the NUT said the supervisors provided 'education on the cheap' and in some cases were standing in for absent teachers for periods of up to six weeks. Mr Baisley, a maths teacher at Haverstock School in Camden, North London said some schools appeared to believe a tough demeanour was the only attribute necessary to be a cover supervisor.

'I know of bouncers being employed specifically because they are bouncers to cover lessons,' he said.

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"Education, Education, Education...."
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  #2  
Old 14th April 2009, 03:26 PM
Rebel Soul Rebel Soul is offline
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Default Re: Schools hires bouncers instead of supply teachers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Soul
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1169416/Schools-hiring-bouncers-instead-supply-teachers-cover-lessons.html

Almost like a headline from 'The Day Today'- except it's not a fictional one.

[i]Schools are recruiting nightclub bouncers, prison officers and ex- soldiers to stand in for absent teachers.
:
They should feel very much at home in school.
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  #3  
Old 14th April 2009, 05:48 PM
Nicola R Nicola R is offline
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Interesting post Imani.................there's a few angles to look at this - I can understand why they consider employing these type of people......but then again I don't agree with the 2nd rate teaching that will take place (if at all)

When a supply teacher covers the usual teacher the pupils are definately more disuptive and bad behaviour is the usual element of the lesson preventing many from learning.....pupils push the boundaries...... from classroom experience I can say that the firmer contol the cover teacher has over bad behaviour the better the lesson & learning can actually take place....from your news quote it does come across as more like bully tack ticks than actual good ordered disciplin..

I've witnessed many a high school hell lesson where the 'QUALIFIED' cover teacher cannot keep class order, hence no learning takes place at all...........what a crying shame

It is also common practice for qualified cover teachers on 200 per day literally not to teach the lesson but to just hand out the work left & baby sit for 50 mins.....

Another angle is..........it is usually better teaching when pupils are familiar with the adult left with the class...& resident teachers of the school are obligated to cover so many of their free lessons if required.......however, it's usually the case of them handing out work & keeping the distruption under contol..........non subject specified teaching

I can understand schools trying to make a saving & employing permanent cover supervisors...........they will be familiar with students and will get more respect............but on the other hand.....why should they earn second rate pay for doing the same job ....

All in all -
Disruptive pupils = NO learning possible
Controlled behaviour = Pupils able to learn (if they choose to)

Phew
nic x



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  #4  
Old 14th April 2009, 06:58 PM
Rebel Soul Rebel Soul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Interesting post Imani.................there's a few angles to look at this - I can understand why they consider employing these type of people......but then again I don't agree with the 2nd rate teaching that will take place (if at all)

When a supply teacher covers the usual teacher the pupils are definately more disuptive and bad behaviour is the usual element of the lesson preventing many from learning.....pupils push the boundaries...... from classroom experience I can say that the firmer contol the cover teacher has over bad behaviour the better the lesson & learning can actually take place....from your news quote it does come across as more like bully tack ticks than actual good ordered disciplin..

I've witnessed many a high school hell lesson where the 'QUALIFIED' cover teacher cannot keep class order, hence no learning takes place at all...........what a crying shame

It is also common practice for qualified cover teachers on 200 per day literally not to teach the lesson but to just hand out the work left & baby sit for 50 mins.....

Another angle is..........it is usually better teaching when pupils are familiar with the adult left with the class...& resident teachers of the school are obligated to cover so many of their free lessons if required.......however, it's usually the case of them handing out work & keeping the distruption under contol..........non subject specified teaching

I can understand schools trying to make a saving & employing permanent cover supervisors...........they will be familiar with students and will get more respect............but on the other hand.....why should they earn second rate pay for doing the same job ....

All in all -
Disruptive pupils = NO learning possible
Controlled behaviour = Pupils able to learn (if they choose to)

Phew
nic x



Hi Nic....thanks for that.

I did some supply work in 2001 (for my sins)...usually the kind of schools where some classes had already had 5 or 6 teachers over a couple of semesters. In many cases, teachers would be off long-term sick because of the pressures of the job. Sadly, that is a common story.

It's not a very flattering reflection on the system that some schools operate on 'crisis management' (or special measures). I'm not sure that scaring pupils into submission is the right approach, long-term. The poorer the background of the pupils, the worse the schools usually are. The education system does have its problems, clearly. At the same time, if you have the right attitude and enthusiasm for learning, it is less of a hindrance.

There are many reasons, cultural as well as political, for the failure of aspects of the education system. A couple of friends of mine have taught in British schools and they've also taught in Kenya and Ethiopia. They found that even in those African schools with meagre resources, the children had a much greater respect for the teacher/learning in general and the attitudes they encountered from pupils in the uk were non-existent (it's just a pity there are so many bad leaders over there- figure that one out!)
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  #5  
Old 14th April 2009, 07:34 PM
Nicola R Nicola R is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Interesting post Imani.................there's a few angles to look at this - I can understand why they consider employing these type of people......but then again I don't agree with the 2nd rate teaching that will take place (if at all)

When a supply teacher covers the usual teacher the pupils are definately more disuptive and bad behaviour is the usual element of the lesson preventing many from learning.....pupils push the boundaries...... from classroom experience I can say that the firmer contol the cover teacher has over bad behaviour the better the lesson & learning can actually take place....from your news quote it does come across as more like bully tack ticks than actual good ordered disciplin..

I've witnessed many a high school hell lesson where the 'QUALIFIED' cover teacher cannot keep class order, hence no learning takes place at all...........what a crying shame

It is also common practice for qualified cover teachers on 200 per day literally not to teach the lesson but to just hand out the work left & baby sit for 50 mins.....

Another angle is..........it is usually better teaching when pupils are familiar with the adult left with the class...& resident teachers of the school are obligated to cover so many of their free lessons if required.......however, it's usually the case of them handing out work & keeping the distruption under contol..........non subject specified teaching

I can understand schools trying to make a saving & employing permanent cover supervisors...........they will be familiar with students and will get more respect............but on the other hand.....why should they earn second rate pay for doing the same job ....

All in all -
Disruptive pupils = NO learning possible
Controlled behaviour = Pupils able to learn (if they choose to)

Phew
nic x



Hi Nic....thanks for that.

I did some supply work in 2001 (for my sins)...usually the kind of schools where some classes had already had 5 or 6 teachers over a couple of semesters. In many cases, teachers would be off long-term sick because of the pressures of the job. Sadly, that is a common story.

It's not a very flattering reflection on the system that some schools operate on 'crisis management' (or special measures). I'm not sure that scaring pupils into submission is the right approach, long-term. The poorer the background of the pupils, the worse the schools usually are. The education system does have its problems, clearly. At the same time, if you have the right attitude and enthusiasm for learning, it is less of a hindrance.

There are many reasons, cultural as well as political, for the failure of aspects of the education system. A couple of friends of mine have taught in British schools and they've also taught in Kenya and Ethiopia. They found that even in those African schools with meagre resources, the children had a much greater respect for the teacher/learning in general and the attitudes they encountered from pupils in the uk were non-existent (it's just a pity there are so many bad leaders over there- figure that one out!)
Hi Imani

Pressures of the job -Yes- sadly.....I have known many very good teachers suffering long term job stress...

Crisis management is what I would interpret as needing extreme solutions as suggested.........controlling pupils like you would a criminal or drunken hooligans with prison officers/ bouncers...............however if believe a 'failing' should not need this as they are usually measured mostly on its academic success & not community ethos /cohesion

Yes - the BIG question - as to why respect/ behaviour is as it is here in the UK...........I can certainly believe your friends experiences.............my thoughts are that this UK generation (in more weathly suburbs) are spoilt & take things for granted.......the area I live - within a 5 mile radius there's a mixture of upper/lower/ middle/working class people & 4 High schools..........however it's confirmed by people I know that the children who come from the more socially deprived area have more repect than the middle class children who have more than they need...........makes you think

I'm not a very political thinker but I feel children need more good role models & encouragment.......
nic x
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  #6  
Old 14th April 2009, 07:52 PM
Rebel Soul Rebel Soul is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Interesting post Imani.................there's a few angles to look at this - I can understand why they consider employing these type of people......but then again I don't agree with the 2nd rate teaching that will take place (if at all)

When a supply teacher covers the usual teacher the pupils are definately more disuptive and bad behaviour is the usual element of the lesson preventing many from learning.....pupils push the boundaries...... from classroom experience I can say that the firmer contol the cover teacher has over bad behaviour the better the lesson & learning can actually take place....from your news quote it does come across as more like bully tack ticks than actual good ordered disciplin..

I've witnessed many a high school hell lesson where the 'QUALIFIED' cover teacher cannot keep class order, hence no learning takes place at all...........what a crying shame

It is also common practice for qualified cover teachers on 200 per day literally not to teach the lesson but to just hand out the work left & baby sit for 50 mins.....

Another angle is..........it is usually better teaching when pupils are familiar with the adult left with the class...& resident teachers of the school are obligated to cover so many of their free lessons if required.......however, it's usually the case of them handing out work & keeping the distruption under contol..........non subject specified teaching

I can understand schools trying to make a saving & employing permanent cover supervisors...........they will be familiar with students and will get more respect............but on the other hand.....why should they earn second rate pay for doing the same job ....

All in all -
Disruptive pupils = NO learning possible
Controlled behaviour = Pupils able to learn (if they choose to)

Phew
nic x



Hi Nic....thanks for that.

I did some supply work in 2001 (for my sins)...usually the kind of schools where some classes had already had 5 or 6 teachers over a couple of semesters. In many cases, teachers would be off long-term sick because of the pressures of the job. Sadly, that is a common story.

It's not a very flattering reflection on the system that some schools operate on 'crisis management' (or special measures). I'm not sure that scaring pupils into submission is the right approach, long-term. The poorer the background of the pupils, the worse the schools usually are. The education system does have its problems, clearly. At the same time, if you have the right attitude and enthusiasm for learning, it is less of a hindrance.

There are many reasons, cultural as well as political, for the failure of aspects of the education system. A couple of friends of mine have taught in British schools and they've also taught in Kenya and Ethiopia. They found that even in those African schools with meagre resources, the children had a much greater respect for the teacher/learning in general and the attitudes they encountered from pupils in the uk were non-existent (it's just a pity there are so many bad leaders over there- figure that one out!)
Hi Imani

Pressures of the job -Yes- sadly.....I have known many very good teachers suffering long term job stress...

Crisis management is what I would interpret as needing extreme solutions as suggested.........controlling pupils like you would a criminal or drunken hooligans with prison officers/ bouncers...............however if believe a 'failing' should not need this as they are usually measured mostly on its academic success & not community ethos /cohesion

Yes - the BIG question - as to why respect/ behaviour is as it is here in the UK...........I can certainly believe your friends experiences.............my thoughts are that this UK generation (in more weathly suburbs) are spoilt & take things for granted.......the area I live - within a 5 mile radius there's a mixture of upper/lower/ middle/working class people & 4 High schools..........however it's confirmed by people I know that the children who come from the more socially deprived area have more repect than the middle class children who have more than they need...........makes you think

I'm not a very political thinker but I feel children need more good role models & encouragment.......
nic x
Job pressures: One of the buzzwords when I (very briefly) worked in schools is assessments. Many teachers find themselves with an incredible amount of paperwork and red tape. This is on top of lesson planning/marking of work etc. In my experience then, a teacher was lucky to be in bed by 1am most nights. If on top of this they're dealing with unruly pupils, something has to give.

Lots of teachers love their job, on the other hand, and the hours aren't a factor.

Interesting what you pointed out there also about the difference in mentality between children, class-wise. There's definitely that element of children who are more priviliged being less respectful. I've also taught some grammar school youths who were the opposite- very respectful.

Speaking of role models, I remember a uk survey done of adolescents maybe 4-5 years ago. The top male role model in votes was Pete Doherty for boys and Abi Titmus for girls! This is what teachers are up against, as well as inherent problems within schools themselves.
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  #7  
Old 14th April 2009, 08:26 PM
Nicola R Nicola R is offline
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel Soul
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola R
Interesting post Imani.................there's a few angles to look at this - I can understand why they consider employing these type of people......but then again I don't agree with the 2nd rate teaching that will take place (if at all)

When a supply teacher covers the usual teacher the pupils are definately more disuptive and bad behaviour is the usual element of the lesson preventing many from learning.....pupils push the boundaries...... from classroom experience I can say that the firmer contol the cover teacher has over bad behaviour the better the lesson & learning can actually take place....from your news quote it does come across as more like bully tack ticks than actual good ordered disciplin..

I've witnessed many a high school hell lesson where the 'QUALIFIED' cover teacher cannot keep class order, hence no learning takes place at all...........what a crying shame

It is also common practice for qualified cover teachers on 200 per day literally not to teach the lesson but to just hand out the work left & baby sit for 50 mins.....

Another angle is..........it is usually better teaching when pupils are familiar with the adult left with the class...& resident teachers of the school are obligated to cover so many of their free lessons if required.......however, it's usually the case of them handing out work & keeping the distruption under contol..........non subject specified teaching

I can understand schools trying to make a saving & employing permanent cover supervisors...........they will be familiar with students and will get more respect............but on the other hand.....why should they earn second rate pay for doing the same job ....

All in all -
Disruptive pupils = NO learning possible
Controlled behaviour = Pupils able to learn (if they choose to)

Phew
nic x



Hi Nic....thanks for that.

I did some supply work in 2001 (for my sins)...usually the kind of schools where some classes had already had 5 or 6 teachers over a couple of semesters. In many cases, teachers would be off long-term sick because of the pressures of the job. Sadly, that is a common story.

It's not a very flattering reflection on the system that some schools operate on 'crisis management' (or special measures). I'm not sure that scaring pupils into submission is the right approach, long-term. The poorer the background of the pupils, the worse the schools usually are. The education system does have its problems, clearly. At the same time, if you have the right attitude and enthusiasm for learning, it is less of a hindrance.

There are many reasons, cultural as well as political, for the failure of aspects of the education system. A couple of friends of mine have taught in British schools and they've also taught in Kenya and Ethiopia. They found that even in those African schools with meagre resources, the children had a much greater respect for the teacher/learning in general and the attitudes they encountered from pupils in the uk were non-existent (it's just a pity there are so many bad leaders over there- figure that one out!)
Hi Imani

Pressures of the job -Yes- sadly.....I have known many very good teachers suffering long term job stress...

Crisis management is what I would interpret as needing extreme solutions as suggested.........controlling pupils like you would a criminal or drunken hooligans with prison officers/ bouncers...............however if believe a 'failing' should not need this as they are usually measured mostly on its academic success & not community ethos /cohesion

Yes - the BIG question - as to why respect/ behaviour is as it is here in the UK...........I can certainly believe your friends experiences.............my thoughts are that this UK generation (in more weathly suburbs) are spoilt & take things for granted.......the area I live - within a 5 mile radius there's a mixture of upper/lower/ middle/working class people & 4 High schools..........however it's confirmed by people I know that the children who come from the more socially deprived area have more repect than the middle class children who have more than they need...........makes you think

I'm not a very political thinker but I feel children need more good role models & encouragment.......
nic x
Job pressures: One of the buzzwords when I (very briefly) worked in schools is assessments. Many teachers find themselves with an incredible amount of paperwork and red tape. This is on top of lesson planning/marking of work etc. In my experience then, a teacher was lucky to be in bed by 1am most nights. If on top of this they're dealing with unruly pupils, something has to give.

Lots of teachers love their job, on the other hand, and the hours aren't a factor.

Interesting what you pointed out there also about the difference in mentality between children, class-wise. There's definitely that element of children who are more priviliged being less respectful. I've also taught some grammar school youths who were the opposite- very respectful.

Speaking of role models, I remember a uk survey done of adolescents maybe 4-5 years ago. The top male role model in votes was Pete Doherty for boys and Abi Titmus for girls! This is what teachers are up against, as well as inherent problems within schools themselves.
Assessments - reports -reviews - examinations -...yes the marking system has a lot to answer for...........far too much statistical analysis...................in our day we just seemed to be measured in willingness/effort.......I had many a report stating - works hard - needs more effort - or - has given up trying.............

Looking at my last comment about class.....not sure if it was the correct term..........I think diversity as whole would be more accurate - though it's so complicated trying to figure out where things go so wrong...............I've supported a boy in class who had learning & behaviour dificulties yet he was very repsectful to me............on the other hand another child in the same group who needed no support was rude to me.

Role models.........your survey speaks volumes Imani....loud & clear

Signing off
Nic x
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