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Old 21st August 2014, 11:31 PM
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Default Iraq, Syria & Isis - Robert Fisk gets it right yet again......

Air strikes? Talk of God? Obama is following the jihadists
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Old 22nd August 2014, 12:21 AM
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Robert fisk has lived the lebanon for decades. He's one of the few journalists that can actually speak fluent arabic. And he has also conducted several interviews with bin laden.

I always read his articles for a better idea of what's going on.

Don't know why private eye are so down on him. They reckon he makes stuff up, but I'm not convinced.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by JB40 View Post
Robert fisk has lived the lebanon for decades. He's one of the few journalists that can actually speak fluent arabic. And he has also conducted several interviews with bin laden.

I always read his articles for a better idea of what's going on.

Don't know why private eye are so down on him. They reckon he makes stuff up, but I'm not convinced.
He always goes against the grain of the mainstream media and writes with a refreshing bluntness the others lack.


Saad
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:30 AM
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Seems like a lot of twisting of the truth to me. These terrorists are over there killing people and beheading journalists, and the liberals play the same old tune of blame the victims. I don't recall America starting this war...??? We're not the ones driving people out into the desert, starving them to death and then beheading helpless journalists.

Kind of funny if you ask me, how the same people who don't want us to get involved in their wars, are the very first countries who cry for help when they need America. America is damned by the media and people in other countries, no matter what we do....The best thing to do: withdraw all our military from overseas, bring them back home. If another wars starts and people start begging us for help...just sit back and say, "hell no. you don't want us there, so we're not going. We don't care how many millions of you are killed. You handle your own problems from now on.." That would last a few months before people would be crying for us to come help.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:36 AM
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and I can't believe I am agreeing with Obama...but he is right. No just God would approve of the crap that's been going on for ages over there in the middle east! The atheist sycophants can espouse their hatred toward religion all they want, but if it weren't for TRUE religious people who actually follow their God's teachings, this world wouldn't have a lot of the GOOD that it does have. The idiots would take over and there would be no morals. Simply put....without God, there are no morals. Our human version of righteousness is as filthy rags compared to a Holy God.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 02:49 AM
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It was the so-called 'conservatives' of the republican party that were very keen to ARM isis in their fight against assad.

As I said over on the other thread, john mccain and the republican party were pushing real hard to send arms to the isis rebel to topple the assad regime. The reason that the journalists were abducted in the first place was because they were encouraged to smuggle themselves into Syria, get next to the rebels [isis] and send back stories of their military victories.

Just as the USA and the UK [and the french] did in libya when they toppled gadaffi. The fundamentalist rebels sexually assaulted him then shot him. All with the approval of our western governments.

Then all hell broke loose in libya.

THIS IS THE TRUTH.

To try and deny this is happening, and that OUR actions in the region have encouraged and armed these murderers is to twist the truth.

We did start it because the Iraq war created a vacuum, and nature hates a vacuum. And the same fighters who took advantage of this power vacuum are the ones trying to spread their saudi inspired fundamentalism. Wherever we intervene and take out a leader we don't like [saddam, gadaffi etc] these murderous lunatics follow behind.

The relationship between american foreign policy and the growth of this kind of rabid fundamentalism is symbiotic. Two sides of the same coin.

I don't know who these 'people' are who you think want america to 'get involved', but believe me, that does NOT include the Iraqi people or the libyans, or the syrians, or the egyptians. Who have suffered greatly under american proxy rule. Using YOUR tax money to keep these bad men in power [saddam, the egyptian army, the saudi's] against the wishes of the people they ruled over.

So your government made some very very bad mistakes. Invading a sovereign country to remove their leader [western puppet turned bad, saddam hussain], bombed it back to the stone age, and left a massive security problem. Leaving the door wide open for terrorists to take over and bring even more carnage to a relatively stable country. That had NO LINKS WITH TERRORISM OR 9/11.

That single reckless act of invasion is what triggered this new wave of fundamentalism [iraq was secular before the invasion].

And your precious conservatives want to ARM the same people who are sawing the heads off journalists.

And when bush and blair invaded iraq, american soldiers rounded up a couple of hundred young iraqi men, locked them in the back of a truck and drove them across the desert. When they reached their destination only a dozen were still alive.

Soldiers in abu grain were sexually assaulting prisoners. And british soldiers were killing prisoners by kicking them in the head while shouting the names of their favourite soccer players.

This is the reality of war. It's not like the movies.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 02:54 AM
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And I am an atheist. But I know when my country bombs innocent people [hundreds of thousands in iraq] they are wrong. Morally and politically. Just as I know that the isis rebels are wrong.

You cling to your god the same way they do.

Last edited by JB40; 22nd August 2014 at 03:19 AM.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 03:18 AM
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My atheism teaches respect for ALL human life.

That includes the children who are blown apart in iraq because they played with the shiny cluster bombs that were dropped on their villages during OUR invasion by OUR soldiers. And it also includes the young palestinian boys playing on a beach when they were targeted by an american or UK supplied fighter jet. And the saudi women stoned to death for adultery after being raped. Condemned by the regime WE sell arms and instruments of population control to. And gadaffi, who was violently assaulted and murdered by the very same men who are now killing journalists in syria.

If bush and blair [both religious] has listened to THIS atheist, a few hundred thousand innocent people would still be alive today.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by JB40 View Post
My atheism teaches respect for ALL human life.

That includes the children who are blown apart in iraq because they played with the shiny cluster bombs that were dropped on their villages during OUR invasion by OUR soldiers. And it also includes the young palestinian boys playing on a beach when they were targeted by an american or UK supplied fighter jet. And the saudi women stoned to death for adultery after being raped. Condemned by the regime WE sell arms and instruments of population control to. And gadaffi, who was violently assaulted and murdered by the very same men who are now killing journalists in syria.

If bush and blair [both religious] has listened to THIS atheist, a few hundred thousand innocent people would still be alive today.

Hear hear JB!!

Atheist here too and I do NOT need a god to know right from wrong.
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Old 22nd August 2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GefferyMorgan View Post
Seems like a lot of twisting of the truth to me. These terrorists are over there killing people and beheading journalists, and the liberals play the same old tune of blame the victims. I don't recall America starting this war...??? We're not the ones driving people out into the desert, starving them to death and then beheading helpless journalists.

Kind of funny if you ask me, how the same people who don't want us to get involved in their wars, are the very first countries who cry for help when they need America. America is damned by the media and people in other countries, no matter what we do....The best thing to do: withdraw all our military from overseas, bring them back home. If another wars starts and people start begging us for help...just sit back and say, "hell no. you don't want us there, so we're not going. We don't care how many millions of you are killed. You handle your own problems from now on.." That would last a few months before people would be crying for us to come help.

Matt,


Obama shows concern over one US journalist being beheaded and then goes back to his game of golf - how much concern did the US government & State Dept or even the people have for the over 250,000 children that died as a result of sanctions in Iraq during the 1990's due to lack of medicines and food.

Fisk is right - our reaction in the West is always wrong because we do not think of the consequences of the mess we create.

If the 2003 invasion hadn't taken place on the pretext of a lie and Afghanistan had been sorted out properly with those resources expended uselessly in Iraq then ISIS would never have happened.

Bombing people from the air never decides the result of a conflict - did Vietnam not teach the Pentagon anything?

Now the ISIS/ISIL/IS genie is out of the bottle and no one has a clue what to do about it.

Cameron wants the West to ally itself with Iran to fight ISIS (what happened to the Axis of Evil?) The Israeli's are livid about this one.

To quote the great BT - Too funny for words.

btw what Robert Fisk does is not take sides as a result he pulls no punches and has no agenda unlike most journalists more worried about their career prospects.

If the US media in 2003 had been more questioning about WMDs and less supine to the Bush Administration then the outcome may have been different.

The anarchy now running amok in Iraq and Syria has already affected Lebanon - I can't wait to see this hit the Israeli border.

ISIS are like Millwall fans - 'no one likes us we don't care' except a lot more dangerous........
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