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Old 13th March 2012, 02:28 PM
Soul Adventurer Soul Adventurer is offline
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Default 'Support our troops' - WYFF & Present Arms

A serious one. Taking a little step back in time, the anti war sentiment (i.e. anti imperialist) is loud and clear in songs such as Present Arms and Who You Fighting For.

With this in mind, I think it's pertinent to raise these questions: How do you view those particular songs' lyrics, in light of the message of 'support our troops' and campaigns such as 'Help For Heroes'? Or vice versa; does the lyrical content of these songs spark off any thoughts in regards to the military, especially the current situations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The loss of servicemen and women's lives and the impact it has on their families is tragic; at the end of the day, they are doing a job and probably feel they're doing it in the interests of their country.

However, I can't blindly support what the troops do, as I see the reasons given by the government for both invasions as being false. I see the government as the culprit and they ought to be helping the soldiers wounded in conflict. What further adds to my feelings is this: If the loss of one British soldier or six American ones is going to be mourned, then compare the amount of death and devastation that innocent Iraqis and Afghan population have had to deal with. But they never get a mention in the same magnitude.

Now it may well be those two songs are just tunes you dance to, with no consequence to their content, which is fine. Though if these issues have any meaning to you, feel free to comment.
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Old 13th March 2012, 03:33 PM
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Old 13th March 2012, 03:48 PM
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Unconditional support for our armed forces is all part of being patriotic. And patriotism isn't good. It allows the government to do whatever it wants and not have to justify it. That's a lot of faith being put in the hands of people who we know have problems with honesty. I don't blame the soldiers themselves, they just go where they are told. But there is no way I can give my approval to EVERYTHING a soldier does.

With the slaughter of innocent women and children by a rampaging American soldier, are Americans supposed to applaud him??? He's a soldier, but sometimes they do bad things and shouldn't be immune to the consequences.
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Old 13th March 2012, 06:14 PM
Astonlad Astonlad is offline
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I posted on 'Eat the Rich' about my friends who went to King Edwards Grammer School. I wrote of their account of ex-millitary teachers, and teachers who played propaganda games with their young minds. Unfortunately it got swamped in rat pooh.

In the British Army there are commisioned and non commisioned officers. A commisioned officer comes from the upper classes and normally joins with rank, non commisioned officers are working class and rise through the ranks. These officers generally do not mix.

The current government have took the p*ss with the armed forces really badly. No wonder then, back towards the end of last year, when soldiers were on standby to go onto the streets to 'restore order' should the national strike action 'get out of hand'; many working class soldiers have aligned themselves with 'anonymous' and are standing as a fith column in favour of the people.

An information war is taking place right now as you read. Anonymous isn't just an action 'group' it is a mass conciousness coming together to challenge those that would see the world in turmoil. Anonymous has the international establishment in turmoil, they are scared to make a move just in case Anonymous makes their plans public.

The FBI claim to have 'cut the head off Anonymous', this is misinformation, they have arrested people yes, but cyber attacks continue. WE are Anonymous, every last one of us. If we all just align ourselves with common ideals then we become part of that mass conciousness, you don't have to be an active member, just keep Anonymous in your mind and wish for its' success. Anonymous is a Legion, Anonymous does not forgive, and Anonymous does not forget, Expect us.
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Old 13th March 2012, 07:54 PM
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Great post and responses, I'm too lazy to write a detailed reply but have to say I agree with what's been said already, as for supporting the troops, I'm strongly of the opinion that the thing they really need protection and supporting from are the politicians and business men who blatantly use them and put their lives in jeopardy, ultimately in the name of profit
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Old 13th March 2012, 08:22 PM
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I was reading recently about an estate of MOD houses. They sold off half the estate to a housing association. The housing association then applied for government grants to renovate the dilapidated houses.

So now the soldiers who are still there are living in sub-standard conditions -with rising damp, holes in the roof, fungus and bad wiring-, while their civilian neighbours are living in much better conditions. Payed for with tax-payers money.

Not very nice treatment for those that are prepared to put their life on the line for their country.
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Old 13th March 2012, 08:40 PM
mrClaypole mrClaypole is offline
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Great topic S.A.

Ive given this a hell of a lot of thought.

I have a brother who has served once in Iraq and twice in Afghanistan, Ive had to endure the 2 years of hell knowing that every phonecall could be devestating news, thankfully he was retired from the T.A (yes not even a full time soldier) after his last tour. The worry has ended.

Ive learnt alittle bit about the way the army treats the "family back home". They tell you one thing to your face, but the reality is always much worse.
When my Brother had some leave, he would paint a more worryling realistic picture of the conditions they were forced to endure.

But if you ever raised an objection, the army would never answer you because they said that to "question the conditions" you would be "destroying the troops morale".

That to me is pretty sickening, they silence you by giving you a guilt trip.
They play on your loyalty and patriotism to stop any questions.

Of course I am 100% behind every troop fighting in wars around the world. But in the way that I dont support the wars that they are puppets and cannon fodder in. I dont want them to end up wearing a tank as a coffin or having their bodies ripped apart by shells and bombs, the very same bombs that have been made in factories in the country they came from and brokered to the "enemy" by the same people who sent them to war.

The same people who promise them that life will be better when the evil they face is stamped out, when the real evil are the ones who dont care about the families who sit knowing every phonecall could bring the devestating news that their Son, Daughter, Brother, sister, cousin, nephew....etc. has been reduced to a pile of sinew and shards of bones in a country we know very little of and dont really understand. Liars who wouldnt dream of sending their children to fight.

WYFF is a very important song for me, Ive read up alot and listened to people since 2001, I have come to the conclusion that the army dont know who they are fighting far and I know that alot of soldiers are being damaged mentally by the conflict in Afghanistan as they feel theyve been lied too also, they feel that are being used as pawns in a dangerous fairy story.

What you dont see on the bews is that whenever a politician visits, they are routinely booed and treated with contempt. The officers have to round up some patsies to smile, while the MP spends 2 mintues with them for the cameras. What you dont see is the MP hurriedly run into a chinook straight out the back door before the rest of the troops find out about their presence and our attacked again.

The troops know they have been duped, yet the war is spun out on the "elaborate lies" that they are doing some good, yet time and time again they can see their colleagues still getting maimed or killed and the deadline for pulling out getting further and more obscured in the distance away from them.

Yet when they return back to the UK in bits mentally and missing bits physically, the politicians wont spend a damn penny on them, they treat them with contempt, they are put in filthy hospitals and left to fester, soldiers are given a useless medal and very little financial support, thrown on the scrapheap.

The same polticians who are quite happy to use patriotism to tug at the heartstrings of the general population by making us buy poppies and wristbands so that we can make a soldiers life better when they come back.
Of course, the politicans can find billions upon billions to keep the war machine funded, but cant find a couple of million pounds a year too ease the suffering caused to the men and women they have sent off too do the bidding of their egos.

I support the people who have been duped, I dont support war.
One mans terrorist is anothe rmans freedom fighter.

I support the victims of war and pray for their lost relatives.
I dont support war mongering pyschos who seek too terrorise this one chance we have of a life on this planet.
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Old 13th March 2012, 09:55 PM
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That was nicely put Mr C.

The British Government doesn't even seem to embarrased by organisations such as Help For Heroes. At least have the decency to look after the poor sods when they come back f*cked up having done your dirty work for you.
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Old 13th March 2012, 10:01 PM
kate13 kate13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Jimmy View Post
That was nicely put Mr C.

The British Government doesn't even seem to embarrased by organisations such as Help For Heroes. At least have the decency to look after the poor sods when they come back f*cked up having done your dirty work for you.

Yeah.

I support them..............But it's time they were all home, it's a fight they're never going to win.
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Old 13th March 2012, 10:16 PM
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nephertiti nephertiti is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Jimmy View Post
That was nicely put Mr C.

The British Government doesn't even seem to embarrased by organisations such as Help For Heroes. At least have the decency to look after the poor sods when they come back f*cked up having done your dirty work for you.
Agree ... it was nicely put Mr C and I agree with JJ and kate and JB and all of you ....

If I was a family member of someone who had died, got injured was still out there...it would be good to know that people were thinking of you ...so these charities , fundraising do help

Its a sad old world sometimes....Awful for the families of these young lads

....it is why these adverts making out it is so exciting .... aimed at the young... to join .....make me shake in rage.....

and as for the politicians standing with smarmy faces ...less said better
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